BBC captures talk between two villains
The
following is the BBC transcript of the conversation between Venezuelan President
Hugo Chavez and Cuban leader Fidel Castro. It has been edited for brevity. Mr
Castro spoke with Hugo Chavez for almost 30 minutes. He called during a daily
radio show Mr Chavez has, called Hello President.
Chavez: Let's see who is calling
from
Castro: Hello. Hello. Do you hear
me?
Chavez: Who is
calling?
Castro: Can you hear
me?
Chavez: I hear
you.
Castro: Distinguished and dear
friend, how are you?
Chavez: [Words
inaudible]
Castro: I am listening to you on
Hello President. All the figures you have cited, I find your argument very good
regarding the growth of the GDP, over the drop in unemployment. Many interesting
things.
Chavez: How are
you?
Castro: Go ahead, go ahead. Ask
me.
Chavez: [In English] How are
you?
Castro: [In English] Pretty well.
[Laughter]
Chavez: You have no idea how happy
it makes us to hear your voice and to know you are well.
Castro: Thank
you.
Chavez: We are surprised. We are
pleasantly surprised. We were, as almost always, talking about you a while ago.
Now, you know that.
Castro: I always knew I would end up
on Hello President.
Chavez: Now we broadcast
daily.
Castro: No. [Words inaudible.
Laughter] I am studying a lot, above all.
Chavez: What are you
studying?
Castro: I see that you do not let go
of the books. When do you sleep?
Chavez: I sleep a little in the
early morning. I sleep some. I study a lot. That is one of the responsibilities
of every revolutionary. We follow your example. I am now reading
-
Castro: [Interrupting] Yes. You have
been reading for a long while. You have great talent to keep it all in, to
remember everything. The only thing you sometimes forget is
figures.
Chavez: I forget numbers but not
that much.
Castro: However, you have them all
bookmarked and never miss one. It is not easy to keep up with
you.
Chavez: Do you know how many
hectares of corn are needed to produce one million barrels of
ethanol?
Castro: To do
what?
Chavez: To produce one million
barrels of ethanol?
Castro: Ethanol. I believe you told
me about that the other day. Somewhere around 20 million
hectares.
Chavez:[Laughing] Just like
that.
Castro: Go ahead, remind
me.
Chavez: Indeed, 20 million. You are
the one with an exceptional mind, not me.
Castro: Twenty million. Well, of
course. The idea of using food to produce fuel is tragic, is dramatic. No one is
sure how high the price of food will rise when soy is being used for fuel, with
the need there is in the world to produce eggs, milk, to produce meat. It is a
tragedy. One of many today.
I am happy to know that you
have taken up the flag to save the species because... there are new problems,
very difficult problems and therefore to see someone become a great preacher of
the cause, a champion of the cause, an advocate of the life of the species. For
that, I congratulate you. Continue fighting [words inaudible] to educate the
people so they can understand.
There are things that I read
and review every day. I am very aware of the threat of war, environmental
threats and food threats. We have to remember that there are billions of people
famished. These are realities, and for the first time in history, the
governments are getting involved. Governments that are able and have the moral
authority to do it, and you are one of those rare
examples...
Forgive me for extending
myself. I have stolen half of your show.
Chavez: No. Not extensive at all. It
is 1949. We were remembering you today. As you know, today is 27 February. One
of the reasons of the Caracazo is that when you came that time, you left here
hundreds of agitators that set the flats on fire, as we say. We were analysing
the causes including the topics of the foreign debt, Black Friday, the
plundering of the country, the flight of capital, privatisation, inflation
accompanied by a horrible recession, unemployment, the collapse of the middle
class. Well, as Einstein said, we were reading it a while ago, I do not know if
you heard it, when he reflects on socialism and concludes that capitalism
generates chaos.
So, Fidel, we were
remembering you in connection with the Caracazo [violent looting and
disturbances in
And 4 February stems from the
Caracazo. You know that one does not make sense without the other. Then came
this whole path, our revolution in which
Castro: I think it is all
wonderful...
Chavez: [In English] Our friends
Fidel, listen.
Castro: Well, you say that I know
English. I did at one time.
Chavez: Did you forget
it?
Castro: The trauma afterwards has
made me forget it. This is why I no longer have that excellent memory you have,
the capacity to summarise or your musical ear, your talent to remember songs. I
cannot believe that you have partied so much as to remember all those
songs.
Chavez: I never partied as much as
you.
Castro: I envy you
that.
Chavez: Not as much as you. Not as
much as you.
Castro: I am talking about the
essence of ideas. You have the right words. I have noticed that the [word
inaudible] the exact words. In the end, you will be one of the greatest writers
in this hemisphere. Do not worry, writers have increasingly more power with
time.
Chavez: Can I ask you
something?
Castro: Yes.
Chavez: What do you think of the
latest news to have reached us? That 67% of Americans disapprove of Bush's
policy in
Castro: Ah, you are going to welcome
him. Yes, I have heard something. That there will be mass organisations all in a
very peaceful and respectful spirit, but I bet that you do not know about two
big news today.
Chavez: Tell
me.
Castro: For example, the Shanghai
Stock Market fell 9% today and the New York Stock Exchange, the queen of all
stock markets, fell 4%. It is one of the greatest drops in recent years and that
really proves our ideas.
Chavez: Well, those news
-
Castro: [Interrupting] They lost
there $800bn (£409bn). It is the queen of the stock exchanges. The fall was
greater than during the
Chavez: Yes. No. I tell you. I did
not know the news of the fall of the
Castro: Yes. They are selling gold
because that is the only thing worth anything today. What they should be selling
is paper. Paper for the
Chavez: It will be a serious
bank.
Castro: The International Monetary
Fund was never so, the crisis proves it. This happens three or more days before
the fall of the stock exchange.
Chavez: It is the same crisis, as
you already know, the crisis of the world economy, the capitalist system. Well,
the alternative at the national level. Each one has its own model. We have
socialism there in
Well, everyone asks for you.
Yesterday I was in Martinique, pardon, in
Everyone asks about you and I
tell them what I know about your recovery, of your new Sierra Maestra [Cuban
mountain range which Castro used as a base for starting revolution], of that
struggle you are waging and in which we accompany you every day. Praying to God,
whom as you said is helping Chavez and his friends, to continue helping you in
your recovery. All of us. We are millions, as you know, in the world that want
to see you again fully recovered as I am sure will be...
You are an example of
resistance and now of offensive, Fidel. I do not want to let go of the
opportunity of your surprising phone call that so encourages us and makes us
happy to continue reminding our people of the courage of Revolutionary Cuba and
your courage, your courage, your conscience. We were remembering that you were
here in 1959 when the so-called democracy experience here, which failed
miserably, was beginning. That failure led to the Caracazo and that to 4
February, and from there to what is happening here today. But you,
Castro: Hugo, I wanted to tell you
that I met the head of your delegation and we were talking when the news from
over there arrived. So I am very happy. I will see if I can talk to him
personally or some of the other figures later on. They are working a lot with
great enthusiasm. Taking advantage of the short time we have left. Time cannot
be overlooked. In my opinion, we have limited time.
Chavez: As you know
-
Castro: [Interrupting] We are
increasingly more aware of that. I thank you very much for your greetings, for
your thoughts. Overall, I remembered to give you back the microphone because if
I do not, I get going like you. I could not compete, but I can imitate you a
bit. I also want to thank you for the greetings from the people of
History is being rewritten.
Two hundred years ago everything was very different. The world has changed so
much, especially in the last 70 years, that is the time we must take advantage
of and over which we have to meditate a lot. I set time for that. I feel good
because there is nothing more important...
I cannot promise you that I
will visit you soon and accompany you one of these days, but I am gaining
ground. I feel more energetic, stronger and I have more time to study. I have
become a student all over again.
Chavez: Morals and
Lights.
Castro: Morals and Lights. Those two
words are stuck in my head. I do not forget that. This is the first time I see
someone trying to win that moral battle on a foundation of winning the hearts
and minds of the people. I do not know if you still have more time, but you were
supposed to talk to Ramirez.
Chavez: No, I can talk to Ramirez
tomorrow.
Castro: He is saying: what do I
do?
Chavez: I can talk to Ramirez
tomorrow. We are happily listening to you and we are happy to hear you and to
hear about your recovery. Continue to recover. Do not forget about the
tsunami.
Castro: No.
No.
Chavez: Go
ahead.
Castro: I almost forgot one thing.
Everyone thanks you for relaying news about me. I speak and then silence. Total
silence. I cannot be talking every day. They have to break the habit, the vice
of having news every day. I appeal for patience and calm from everyone. I am
happy. Everything is quiet. The country is marching along, which is what
matters. I also ask for tranquillity for me so that I can fulfil my new tasks
nowadays.
Chavez: Yes, Fidel. I have become,
well, you have turned me into an emissary, a source. Anyone who wants to know
how Fidel is doing, can come here, can call me, can talk to me. I always give
them - Well, I tell them the truth about what is happening. Your recovery, your
example, your perseverance. You have said that you cannot accompany me here soon
on a trip, but it is not necessary because you are always here with us. I hope
to return to
Castro: A million
thanks.
Chavez: Let's give Fidel a round of
applause. [Applause] A hug. Comrade, companion, and you know, I do not have any
qualms about calling you father in front of the world. Onward to
victory.
Castro: Onward to
victory.
Chavez: We will
prevail.
Castro: We will prevail.
[Applause]
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